2009 American Distilling Institute Conference

This year's American Distilling Institute conference was a bit of a blur, and already a month has passed since I got home. Before any more time passes, here's a quick rundown of the conference.

Friday night - Tour of Anchor Distilling
I wrote about this in another post. Suffice to say, it was a treat to see the stills and meet up with some of my blogger friends. After the bus ride back to the hotel (on which I was sampling one of Anchor's fine beers), I was exhausted. My car (with me in it) was rear-ended by a drunk driver the night before (a bit ironic, since I was leaving my distillery), and I only got about 30 minutes of sleep before my flight that morning. So I went to the restaurant across the street for dinner and called it a night.

Saturday - Distilling Conference
We convened at St. George Spirits at a fairly early hour, and followed along on a schedule of sessions on a variety of topics. This year's theme was brandy/eau de vie/grappa, so the presentations were about distilling spirits from fruit. We heard from many great craft spirit producers, including Dan Faber from Osocalis and Hubert Germain-Robin. We also had a panel session on marketing craft spirits, and lobbying legislators for changes to arcane state liquor laws that many of us confront.

Awards were also given out in a variety of categories, and we had an opportunity to taste the entered spirits. We didn't enter anything, since we don't have anything out from fruit (yet).

That night, I had both bad and good tiki experiences - more on that here.

Sunday - Crafts Spirits Public Tasting
For the first time at one of these ADI conferences, we had a public tasting event. This was a welcome addition to the conference, and provided many of us a great opportunity to interact with consumers in the Bay Area about our products. Members of the general public were invited to come out to St. George and try spirits from all the distilleries present, and in most cases, meet the distiller/founder. We had a pretty good turnout, and it was a lot of fun. I hope to see more of these types of events at future conferences, ideally with more publicity to increase the interest & turnout, but this was a great start.

The only beef I had with the event, which I voiced to the powers that be, was that there were some products that do not meet my definition of American craft spirits, so I wouldn't have allowed them to be poured. For instance, there were some imported spirits.

At any rate, we went on a proper cocktail crawl on Sunday night in San Francisco - more on that in a post coming soon.

Monday - Meet the Mixologist
On Monday, Bay Area bartenders and mixologists were invited to come out and taste spirits and talk with the distillers/founders. Unfortunately, the turnout was fairly light, but this was also a fun event and a good idea. As my friend Gabriel over at Cocktail Nerd noted, bartenders and mixologists are an essential partner for small distilleries.

Bring on the Bloggers
One of the highlights for me was to meet some of my blogging friends. It was fantastic to have them at the conference, and I was very happy they were invited to participate and write about our group and our industry.

Thanks to St. George!
The folks at St. George were wonderful hosts, and a lot of fun too. Thank you to Jorg, Lance, Andie and the rest of the team at St. George for hosting us and letting us invade their distillery for three days!

I Saw Fritz Maytag's Stills

The 2009 American Distilling Institute conference was held in Alameda, CA last month, at St. George Spirits (more on the conference in a future post). The folks at St. George were wonderful hosts, and provided a great location for our conference.

Since we're distributing in Northern California now, I figured it made sense to go to the conference and then spend some time with our distributor's folks in San Francisco.

In addition to the public tasting event for craft spirits, which was a terrific addition to the ADI conference, one of the highlights was getting to tour Anchor Distilling.

Really? A Tour of Anchor?
The first time I saw Fritz Maytag speak a few years ago at one of these conferences, I found it kind of comical. I have no doubt he is a wonderful man, and I'm sure we'd get along famously if we actually spoke face to face, but he was asked to speak to a group of new distillers and he revealed virtually nothing about anything he does at Anchor. I found myself wondering why he was speaking to us, given that he felt everything was a secret and wouldn't really tell us anything about what he was doing, or about his stills, etc.

So when I heard we'd have a chance to not only visit his brewery facility, but also see the stills, I figured I had better be there. Funny enough, when he spoke to the group this time, Mr. Maytag admitted that historically he didn't even let all of his staff see the stills, let alone others in the industry or (gasp) members of the public. So at least he recognized he was "keeping everything close to the vest."

Here are a few photos from the tour - it was a lot of fun. I only wish we could have tasted some of their spirits, rather than only the beers. They make some great beers, of course, many of which I can't get in Chicago, but they also make some spirits I can't get (e.g., the Hotalings).

Pictures are:

• Mr. Maytag and his head distiller making a presentation in front of their three stills - one for genever, one for gin, one for whiskey (left to right)
• The hops room
• The tasting room, where the rest of our group was hanging out while waiting for their tour group
• The Anchor uniform, which I loved. I think we should have a distillery uniform or something. So far, Derek's not going for it.

ADI Conference, Day 3

Holy crap, the whole rest of April and the first few days of May got away from me before I finished my posting about the ADI conference. I better get this finished before a whole month has passed!

Without further ado, here are the highlights from the last day of the conference - a very interesting day indeed.

Whiskey Distillers Panel
We left the Seelbach bright and early to head to the Huber Winery campus. Our sessions for the day were held in their lovely conference area. After the welcomes and administrivia, we kicked off the conference sessions with a panel of craft whiskey distillers.

The panel included Jess Graber from Stranahan's in Colorado, Ralph Erenzo from Tuthilltown in New York, Don Poffenroth from Dry Fly in Washington, and Rick Wasmund from Copper Fox in Virginia. Here are a few highlights of the panel:

• Pretty universally, the distillers reported that they get about a 10% ratio of whiskey to wash, so 3000 gallons of wash yields 300 gallons of whiskey
• Some of the distillers do their own fermentation, while others have a local brewery create the mash. Reasons varied - some met with reluctance from the breweries, while others outgrew the capability of their local brewery; and one really wanted to control the entire process from the beginning (he even malts his own barley)
  
• Relative to the "small batch" brands made by larger companies, their production levels are very small. However, they vary within their group - ranging from 1-2 barrels per month to 6 barrels per week being put away. Those who've been making whiskey longer, or have larger aspirations, are producing at higher levels.
• If they had it to do over, they all wished they had allocated more money for marketing. "Getting bottles to leave the store is the key," as Rick Wasmund rightly pointed out.

Working with Distributors
I had the pleasure of leading a panel talking about working with partners in the distribution process. Our aim was to set realistic expectations among the new distillers (and those aspiring to be distillers) about how the process works, who the players are, and what you can expect. Since I was on the panel, I didn't get any photos of that one!

Tasting Panel with Jim Murray
Toward the end of the day, we were split into two groups for a structured tasting. I went for the blind whiskey tasting led by whiskey expert/critic Jim Murray. Jim's approach to tasting (and education) was very interesting. Some parts of it were in conflict with other advice I've been given over the years, but I went with it. Here were the steps:

1. Nose the spirit - at room temperature, before any alterations
   
2. Warm it up - place your hand under the bottom of the glass, and your other hand over the top. Hold the glass to your chest (unfortunately we ended up doing this for at least 10 minutes, so it got a bit uncomfortable, but people who cheated were called out on it)
3. Remove your hand from the top and let the alcohol vapors escape
4. Nose it again - one nostril at a time, which allows you to detect the aroma more clearly and allows more air to pass through
5. Taste the spirit - put some in your mouth, and then open and close your mouth with your lips pursed (kinda like making a fish face); too bad I didn't get a photo of a room full of people doing this
6. Swallow or spit

We tried some interesting spirits. Each one was kind of a sucker punch - it was not what it tasted like blind. Nonetheless, certain folks in the room continued guessing (loudly) each time, sure that they new what each one was.

We tasted:

• Penderyn Welsh Whiskey
• Sazerac Rye Whiskey
  
• Buffalo Trace Bourbon
• Clear Creek Single Malt
• And the most interest one, Amrut Cask Strength 3 year old whiskey from India
  

That last one tasted like a well made, well-aged Scotch whiskey. It was smoky, with a bit of peat, very complex and smooth despite being 61.2% alcohol. Mr. Murray advised that it is made in Bangalore, and that at 5 years it is positively undrinkable. It is so hot there, that whiskey ages much faster than it ever would in Scotland. I'm sure the Scots are none too happy about this.

Topinambur and Other Tastes
After the formal conference ended for the day, we had an informal tasting of products. Most of them are either on the market or works in progress. Lots of interesting stuff to taste, most of which I can't get in Chicago. The most interesting thing I tried, which has never been on the market here as far as I know, is a Topinambur made by one of the finest distillers in the US.

What is Topinambur, you ask? Its Jerusalem artichoke brandy, quite popular in a small part of Europe. The Jerusalem artichoke is also known as the sunchoke, and apparently has more sugar (fructose) in it than beets. I think this tops the white asparagus brandy that Derek tasted in Germany a few years ago, but maybe not.

Dinner, and then Art & Whiskey
We had a fantastic fried chicken dinner at Huber, and then we headed back to the hotel. As you might expect, some of us went out afterward. It was kind of late by the time we headed out, though, and being a weeknight there weren't that many options. So we ended up in the touristy 4th Street Live area. Not much to say for the drinks (pretty much bourbon or beer), but it was fun. There is some great public art in Louisville - here are a few favorites.

ADI Conference, Day 2 (Part 1)

Monday, April 7th was a very busy day at the ADI conference. We loaded up on buses at 8 am from the Seelbach Hotel and headed out into the country. I'm going to break this day up into two posts, so as to avoid a (bigger) monster post.

First stop: Vendome Copper & Brass

I've been to Vendome before, so I mostly hung out by the coffee. Here are a couple of photos, one from this trip and one from the last time I was there. The people at Vendome are always very gracious when we come for tours. However, when we had tried to contact them about our still a few years ago, no one would get back to us. Right or wrong, we got the impression that they were so tied up with the big bourbon distilleries in the area that our project was too small.


Second Stop: Independent Stave Company
If you've never been inside a cooperage, you are missing out. I've been to two now, and they were similar, but actually more different than I expected. This year, we went to Independent Stave's cooperage in Lebanon, KY. Unfortunately, they did not allow photographs within the cooperage, so all I've got is a couple of shots from the outside and in the cafeteria (where we had a nice box lunch, thanks to ISC).

These places are very loud (they pass out ear & eye protection before you go in). New American oak logs (mostly from Missouri) are cut, and then laid on pallets to season in the sun for a few months. Then they are dried to 10-11% moisture levels in dryers and gigantic kilns. Each board is sanded, filed and shaped by one of their employees using a large sander/cutting machine. Some boards are made into barrel heads, and they have a separate production line for heads. A cooper chooses the staves (the individual boards that go into the barrel) for each barrel and lays them in place by hand. Machines then drop on the first rings, and the barrels continue on their journey.

Future steps involve steaming the barrels to make the pliable enough to shape and force on the other rings. The barrels are then dried, and heads are added. Final step - test for leaks. Interestingly, they had about a 25% failure rate at Independent Stave, and a separate line of folks who take those barrels apart to fix them. The guys in these jobs are tough, its hard work.










Just for fun, here are a couple shots from the Bluegrass Cooperage, which we toured a couple of years ago - they let us take pictures inside.



Third Stop: Makers Mark Distillery
Makers Mark has a beautiful campus and facility in Loretto, KY, and they do a great job of conveying their story to consumers who come to visit. However, a few things about my experience there were not what I expected. We were given the exact same tour as other (non-industry) visitors, which means we got a very basic lesson in fermentation and distillation that most of us didn't need or want, plus a whole lot of marketing.

If I had counted the number of times our tour guide had used the phrase "quality bourbon" or "we only make a quality product," I think I would have used all my fingers & toes, and maybe someone else's. She also called us "you people" a lot, which for some reason irritated me (I sometimes am amused when things like that actually bug me, not sure why).

Finally, at the end of our tour, we were led through one of the rickhouses, through a door that led directly to the gift shop. All of a sudden, I thought I was at Disneyland or something.

I think the experience would probably be great for the general Makers Mark consumer, but I was annoyed. I did enjoy the tasting, however, and one of their distillers joined us then.

Final Stop on the Tour: Heaven Hill Distillery
We drove onward to Heaven Hill in Bardstown, KY. They were ready for us, with some great snacks and several mini-tour options (rickhouses, barrel filling ,etc.). They don't actually distill anything at their facility in Bardstown - apparently the still and its building burned down awhile back and they now do their distilling in Louisville. Spirits are trucked in for barreling and aging in Bardstown. There are many rickhouses, as well as a big visitors center and other facilities.

We got to meet Parker Beam, who guided us in a tasting of the Evan Williams Single Barrel and Bernheim's Wheat Whiskey. He was gracious and answered our many questions about how they make their products.

Unfortunately I missed out on the tour of a rickhouse somehow, but I did get to see the area where they fill barrels.

It was a great day of tours, and we headed back to the Seelbach Hotel in Louisville for a free night. More about that in my next post!

American Distilling Institute Conference, Day 1

On Sunday, April 6th, the fifth annual American Distilling Institute conference got underway in Louisville, Kentucky. We gathered at the historic Seelbach Hotel (lobby at right) to taste spirits, see old friends and meet new ones.

This is the third conference I have attended (I went to the 2nd and 3rd, but not the 4th), and this was the largest by far - over 170 attendees.

Like Lance Mayhew's recent recap of his mixology summit, I'm planning a day-by-day summary of the conference. Here's what happened on the short (but eventful) first day:

Pre-event Cocktails
A few of us arrived early for an informal ADI board meeting. Afterward, we visited the legendary Old Seelbach Bar. If you go, try the Speakeasy Select bourbon & rye. Its their house label, and I couldn't find it anywhere else (and believe me, I looked & asked). I wonder if its a rebottling of another product, or if it's custom made for them? If you like champagne cocktails, you should try the Seelbach Cocktail as well.

6 pm - Spirits Tasting and Meet & Greet
In a suite that was far too small for the crowd, this group of craft distilling enthusiasts tasted spirits and talked excitedly about their spirits and distilleries (or planned ones). Here are a couple of shots from the room.









A few observations:

• The attendees came from all over. Most of the group was from the U.S., from both coasts and everywhere in between. I talked with people from Australia and El Salvador, as well as England, Scotland (a vendor), and Canada.
• The group had a decent number of established distillers in attendance, which was good (especially for those new to the industry). The list included Jess Graber from Stranahan's, Brian Lee from Tuthilltown, Rick Wasmund from Copper Fox, Scott Bush from Templeton Rye, Ted Huber and Jason Heiligenberg from Huber Starlight, and others.
  
• As before, there were very few women (which has the one benefit of meaning no line for the ladies room, even when there was one for the mens - had to appreciate that since it doesn't happen very often)

Informal Dinner
After the tasting, most folks broke into smaller groups to go to dinner. I went with a group of ten, and we were surprised to see how many Louisville restaurants were closed on Sunday. Of course once we arrived in one, we realized why that might be. We ended up at Proof on Main, and we were fortunate to end up there for our first dining & drinking experience in downtown Louisville.

Here's what you see when you first walk into Proof on Main. There art interesting works of art throughout the restaurant, including the sculpture sitting on the bar.

It turns out that sculpture has a name, although I didn't realize this until I came back the next night. Here's the scoop (it's Randy):



I'll write more about drinks at Proof in another post, but on this night we had a fantastic dinner (I had the bison tenderloin, it was excellent). The restaurant is connected to the 21c Museum Hotel, and connecting them is a small art museum (part of the hotel's collection). Its a really interesting space, with some great contemporary art. As you walk to the restrooms, you pass through the gallery.

There are a number of surprises in the gallery. For instance, here's the mensroom from the outside. Its one-way glass (and yes, I got a tour of the inside of the mensroom when there weren't any men in it).

The urinal is directly against the one-way glass, so you can see the people in the hallway while standing at the urinal. The poll was 50/50 on whether men in my group thought they could actually use the urinal.

After dinner at Proof, we returned to the Old Seelbach Bar for a nightcap, and then sought out some sleep before our 8 am bus departure time on Monday.

Mixology Monday XXIII (I wish I could have) Brandy

Its time again for another Mixology Monday, this month hosted by Marleigh over at Sloshed! and the topic is brandy. Brandy is one of those spirits I've been researching over the past few months, and have started to taste and experiment with them more. However, since I'm currently suffering a terrible cold and haven't been able to partake of cocktails, I thought I would write about a few of the brandy distilleries I have visited and throw in one favorite recipe for good measure.

California Brandy Distilleries
A couple of years ago, we attended a distilling conference, and part of the festivities included a distillery tour. I had the privilege of touring the Jepson, Germain-Robin and Solomon Tournour distilleries. Here are some fun photos and stories from the trip.

First Stop: Jepson
In addition to a variety of wines, the folks at Jepson are using a cognac still to produce fine brandies from Colombard grapes (rather than the ugni blanc favored in Cognac). They walked us through their process in depth and let us try their products. Just like us, they do everything in true small batches, by hand (see hand labeling in photo to right).

Jepson brandies are virtually impossible to find in Chicago, so I was glad that I brought some home with me. My favorite is the Old Stock brandy, which I typically enjoy neat in a nosing glass (and I agree with Dominik about using a tulip glass rather than a snifter if possible!). It has rich spice tones, along with rich vanilla and caramel flavors.

Next Stop: Germain-Robin
This was the distillery I was most excited to see, given their reputation and products. We were greeted by the master distiller, Hubert Germain-Robin (pictured at far left), who was a gracious and delightful host. He walked us through his entire operation and process, and let us taste some of their creations. Germain-Robin makes their brandies from pinot noir and other richer varietals not used in the Cognac region.

Germain-Robin products are a bit easier to find in Chicago, especially their very nice Alambic Brandy, which is a bit fruitier and lighter, but with spice overtones. I really loved the Select Barrel XO, and wished I could have tasted the Anno Domini. Guess I'll have to save that one for a special occasion, since its $350 or so.

Third Stop: Solomon Tournour
Our last stop on this day of tours was at Solomon Tournour, a distillery so small you probably haven't heard of it. It appears they don't even have a website, or at least I cannot find it. They make really interesting products though, all done by hand from local fruits, including a lovely pear eau de vie and several fruit brandies. In the photos you'll see the still at Solomon Tournour, as well as Chris Solomon. The distillery is located in a rural area, on Chris's property. This was the smallest scale distillery I've seen, but run by one of the most passionate people I've met.

Of course I cannot find his products here in Chicago, but I'd recommend seeking them out if you are in Northern California!


The Brandy Crusta
Just for fun (and because this post is for mixology Monday), I wanted to throw in my favorite recipe for the brandy crusta.

This was reportedly the first cocktail served with a sugared rim, and it was invented in the mid-1800's in New Orleans.

Can't go wrong with this one, especially for someone who has never seen one before (the big lemon spiral is always a fun surprise). There are lots of variations on the ingredients and ratios, but here is my favorite version:

2 oz Brandy
1 oz Cointreau
1 oz Fresh Lemon Juice
½ oz Maraschino Liqueur
1 dash Peychaud's Bitters

Shake and strain into a cocktail glass (or other fun glass) that has been lightly rimmed with sugar. Garnish with a large lemon spiral around the inside rim of the glass.

In Chicago, you can get your very own version of this (which will look very similar to the photo) at the Drawing Room at Le Passage.

Cheers!

Is the Gin Market Flat?

I read a lot on the Internet, including many blogs. I am often inspired by others, and I enjoy learning from my online adventures. Occasionally I read something that sticks with me and gets me thinking. A couple of weeks ago, this article by Jordan Mackay appeared on chow.com. In the article, Mr. Mackay writes that the “gin market is flatlining” and that “[t]he proliferation of new gins is not a response to a market demand, but instead seems angled to create one, fueled by bartenders, distillers and booze enthusiasts rather than the general public.”

To be candid, the only reason I knew about it was because our website received a few hits from the article. In the interest of full disclosure, I am the co-founder of a small distillery (North Shore Distillery), and our flagship product is a thing called Distiller’s Gin No. 6. Mr. Mackay mentions our gins (neither positively nor negatively) in the article, so we got a few hits.

This article got me thinking. Is Mr. Mackay right? Is the gin market really flat? Is the proliferation of new gins really not a response to market demand? I am sure the statistics Mr. Mackay cites are accurate, but I don’t think they tell the whole story of what is happening with gin.

Proliferation of Gins
Indeed, as Mr. Mackay writes, there are a number of new gins coming to the market. He singles out some of the smaller brands in his critique, but the new gins are coming from a variety of sources. Some are from big houses (e.g., South Gin from Bacardi, Martin Miller from Skyy), others from small craft distilleries (e.g., Aviation, Distiller’s Gin No. 6) and still others from small marketing companies that seem to have lots of capital and big aspirations to launch national/international brands (e.g., Bulldog, D.H. Krahn). This isn’t so different from what you see in other segments of the alcoholic beverage industry. You could point to a similar variety of sources (and volume of new products) in beer, rum/cachaça, and tequila, and there are far more new entries coming in the vodka market.

As with any category of spirits, there are a variety of flavors and styles represented in these news offerings. Some are closer to a flavored vodka, with very little juniper flavor (and some with very little flavor at all), while others are an entirely new take on gin. The federal government’s definition of “gin” is very broad, so the distiller has a lot of latitude. And indeed, as Mr. Mackay writes, some of these gins are being made by people who don’t have a lot of experience. Based on what I’ve seen in the industry, any poor quality product will surely be dismissed as such by the consumers and critics.

Consumer Interest in Gin
Just as background, I spend several hours nearly every Friday and every Saturday in a liquor store or wine shop. I’m there to pour samples and tell people about our company and products, but I also have an opportunity to observe consumer behavior. I also spend nearly every Thursday and quite a few other nights a week in the restaurants, bars and clubs in the Chicago area. So I consider myself well-exposed to what’s happening in the alcoholic drinks world, at least in Chicago.

What do I see? I see a lot of younger people asking about gin, and interested in gin. They like the variety and options available in gin, and that it’s something different. Many folks have been turned off by all the hype and marketing around vodkas, and are looking for something else to drink. At least some of them are turning to gin as an alternative. The marketing approach used by Hendricks Gin is at least partly responsible – it aims to appeal to the person who doesn’t like to follow the herd. And there are a lot of them out there.

Now are these people the “general public”? No, but they are the trendsetters. In my experience, this is how new trends start. The general public doesn’t set new trends, it tends to follow rather than lead. Now, at least some of the leaders are going toward gin. This is all part of the resurgence of the cocktail culture, and interest in old-time cocktails (and properly made cocktails) rather than artificially flavored schlock.

A couple of other observations:

• There is a dramatic difference between what people who live or hang out in the city are drinking from those who live in the suburbs (and beyond), and the city usually leads the trends.
  
• More and more people in Chicago (and elsewhere) are beginning to appreciate high quality cocktails, as evidenced by the tremendous success of the cocktail programs at Nacional 27, the Spring Restaurant Group, The Violet Hour, and the newest entry, The Drawing Room at Le Passage.
  
• Gin is an essential ingredient in a classic cocktail program, along with rye whiskey, bourbon and other spirits that are also experiencing a bit of a revival.

Craft Distilling
Another trend that Mr. Mackay noted is the growth in craft distilling, and that some of the new gins are coming from small craft distilleries. When we started our distillery three years ago, there were about 65 small distilleries in the U.S. Now there are 90 or so, so craft distilling is definitely a new trend. It’s a relatively uncharted frontier – the spirits industry has long been dominated by very large players (Diageo, Pernod-Ricard, etc.), and distribution is tightly controlled by very large distributors in most markets. Nonetheless, intrepid adventurers are making spirits and trying to bring them to market.

Like the craft breweries before us (and small wineries before them), true craft distillers are often trying to challenge the status quo and showcase their capabilities as craftspeople. We use real ingredients rather than flavorings from flavoring labs, and sometimes step outside the traditional bounds and categories. As a result, we will sometimes make things that not everyone will like (especially those purists or traditionalists among us). But this is how real innovation occurs. We don’t use big focus groups and test marketing strategies like a Pernod-Ricard would (e.g., Indigo Gin, which seems to be disappearing from the Chicago market (can't even find a website for it)).

Are some craft distillers going to put out bad products? Undoubtedly. But some will also put out amazing things, the likes of which have not been seen before. While the former can be said for the big houses and the spirits marketing companies, the latter is less likely to come from those two groups.

The Bottom Line
The bottom line for me (us) is we love gin. We’re really excited to see people exploring gin again, and we see it all across the market, not just among the bartenders & booze enthusiasts.

Independent Spirits Fest - Oct 13th

This Saturday night, we're participating in a very special event at the W Hotel in San Francisco. Its the first-ever Independent Spirits Fest, where a number of small, independent distilleries (and one or two bigger ones that snuck in) will be gathering together to introduce their products to consumers.

We're hoping to get a chance to meet some of the real pioneers in the craft distilling movement, as well as get to taste some innovative products that haven't found their way to Chicago just yet. Plus we'll get to meet some really fun spirits fans and tell them about what we're doing.

Its such an exciting time to be making craft spirits, so many interesting things to come! The industry has been dominated by big, big players for so long, perhaps we'll eventually make a small dent in the market like the micro breweries have done.

Anyone going to the Fest?